MMOs.com Podcast – Episode 122: Casuals Are Ruining MMORPGs

MMOs.com Podcast Episode 122 - Omer (@remotayx) and Erhan (@Ehaltay)

This is episode one hundred and twenty-two of the MMOs.com Podcast and we look at the most recent news and happenings in the MMO and gaming world. As always we jumped right into the Weekly Raid, "Do MMORPGs Still Have Room For Elite Content?" We discussed difficulty / raiding in MMORPGs extensively and the current trend of giving casual players better and better rewards without actually earning them. More specifically Omer ranted passionately about "welfare gear" in Final Fantasy XIV where players could get best in slot gear from doing brain dead easy content whereas they had to clear savage tier content previously. The topic of whether developers should make content for the top 1% of players was the highlight of the discussion this week and we had some guests on to share their opinions as well.

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Weekly Raid: Do MMORPGs Still Have Room For Elite Content?

  • darkfyra

    Extreme casuals(the mobile kind) are,but occasionnal player,what’s wrong with them,they just don’t like games as much as us.On the other side the mobile kind is ruining gaming,it’s them that want everything easy,treated like babies,no depth,no variety,don’t care about story,hate turn based(is a sin if your favorite genre is RPG),ruin Final Fantasy,is the reason a mobile KH is canon(ruin KH),only care about having the best graphics,they are the cause for this autoplay abomination.The occasionnal players and average players on the other side just play less than others but it does not mean that they act dumb.Don’t mix them.

    • ivan_

      I'm a PC gamer, but as much as ppl blame mobile for watering down games, it's PC that started it first. Everything "bad" started on PC, from microtransactions to p2w, to casual mechanics/welfare gear. Autoplay is PC first too, because it began with hacks/bots, which turned into legit in-game macros, and eventually legit auto-pathing/questing as seen in many Chinese/Korean games, which finally became auto-grind in modern mobile games. Idk why people keep blaming mobile, if anything mobile takes more casuals away from PC, so I encourage mobile to keep growing.

      • Of course it started on PC... PC was around for a lot longer than mobile gaming

      • darkfyra

        The sad fact is the iPad is stronger than a phone so if they made games destined to it,we could get something far better...but I’m also a PC player that started on console and handhelds that just start playing games on it because I got a iPad for adult college related reason and needed a reason to not make it boring to use,so I profited that I could play old classics directly on the go and that it was the only way to not track down the PSP version of FF Tactics and get access to it more easily.I noticed later on that what was not ports sucked and I want the horror I’ve seen as far away as possible from PC and console gaming,handhelds is now too far gone so I gave up on them,it now only cater to kids and the mobile crowd(the newest Fire Emblems are full of dlcs,SMTIV(full of dlcs and separate the game in two,have the Apocalypse one),Pokémon no longer know what made them great originally.Handhelds games now tend to lack depth and worthwhile gameplay and look more and more like mobile games

  • Nolife Alice

    I see this every time in MMOs, and wow private servers, the best thing you can do to kill your game is to release more tiers of raiding to divide the community more and more.
    Everyone on r/mmorpg and r/wowservers keeps jumping from server to server to get that "hype" of a new server. When everyone is the same gear/level as the majority and is easier to do content, at first when people only do 5 man dungeons everyone is included, is also super fast to do stuff etc., when the tier 1 raiding gets released it divides the community in half casuals and elitists (also gets hard to get to play to get to play with those people unless you prove your dps and show that you have min-maxed gear).
    And when tier 2 of raiding comes, they divide the "elitist" community into 2 types of elitists, and then the servers starts to die, because there is no way for casuals to catch up in gear and after they get to tier 1 they are a bit late to the party. I see it every month when wow servers raise and die.
    For example TERA added a new server last patch, but we already know what is going to happen, it will be fun for 1 month because when guilds start to do 4 star dungeon and not include everyone, casuals will leave it and move to killian/mystrel, the bigger servers where are more casuals to play with or change game.
    Let's look at WoW, the last time it had 10 mil players was at the end of the Ulduar patch (which is considered a great raid by many), the next statistic is after Cataclysm nerfed the 5 man dungeons, down to 5 million players. Why did it die then? Let's analyze the tiers of raiding, first there were normal dungeons, 2nd were heroic dungeons, 3rd was reworked naxx, 4th was ulduar. After this Blizzard introduced Trial of the Crusaders, a raid considered shit by most people, also the community added a ton of elitist tools like Gear-score started making cancer in the community (you needed higher gear-score then dungeon drops), dps meter was widespread, dkp also. After that they released the Lich King raid everyone waited and was hyped for. Cataclysm also had a bad start, dungeons were super hard, i remember watching mike preach struggling on his characters to finish them, and then we see them nerf them but is already too late they lost 5 mil players.
    Now let's look at wow when it was the most fun, everyone was leveling, didn't matter how hard it was, people spammed the cities to go to every single dungeon in the game and Molten core had acceptable difficulty and most videos you see on youtube have people that went in to raid with pirate hats because you only needed 15 good players to finish them. Also it was an experience, 40 people in vent was super fun, not like now with 10/20 people and raids are full of trash mobs, 5 types of difficulty of the same raid/dungeon (that's just lazy design).
    Elitism is killing mmorpgs in my opinion, you as a casual are considered trash tier by people that have gear, the 2 tiers of society if you want to call it like that and they never speak to each other, ever. In vanilla private servers for example, naxrammas gear people don't even reply back to a fresh 60 because they expect them to ask for a carry in dungeons. Nobody that has naxrammas gear will ever do low tier dungeons unless they need something or carry someone. Is impossible to advance your gear to get the minimum gear to start naxrammas unless you are a famous youtuber and can prove it in teamspeak. People quit because it becomes world of wait-craft and it stops being fun. The server just dies at the tier 2 or 3 of raiding for every single private server and game. You can see a lot of examples like this in /r/mmorpg and r/wowservers.
    Also I thought Omer knew this better, have you forgotten the golden age of MMORPG's when everyone helped eachother and the servers were a community that was not divided by gear barriers at all, has everyone already forgotten Dark Age of Camelot before that shitty patch when everyone worked together as a whole server to compete with another server in RvR?

  • Nolife Alice

    Noo, my comment got marked as spam.

  • Feto

    WoW tried to make the game more difficult with Cataclysm and most people didn't really liked it. Cataclysm dungeons were hard, heroic dungeons required some thought rather than just spamming the pewpew spells and raids were challenging. Yet, most people consider Cataclysm a shitty expansion.
    So if WoW tried and didn't work, why would anyone else try? The majority of the people seems to prefer easy shit.